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	<title>Comments on: Shots Verified</title>
	<atom:link href="http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/</link>
	<description>Life in the Flood Zone</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Garvey</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-208175</link>
		<dc:creator>Garvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-208175</guid>
		<description>There are a couple of names in this article, but not sure if any of them are the right one I was thinking of:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4706</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a couple of names in this article, but not sure if any of them are the right one I was thinking of:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4706" rel="nofollow">http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4706</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-208136</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-208136</guid>
		<description>Thanks B and Garvey.  As for my interest, I'm always interested in learning.  If you recall the name or a reference for the author Garvey mentioned, I'll look it over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks B and Garvey.  As for my interest, I&#8217;m always interested in learning.  If you recall the name or a reference for the author Garvey mentioned, I&#8217;ll look it over.</p>
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		<title>By: Garvey</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-208129</link>
		<dc:creator>Garvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-208129</guid>
		<description>I'm with B on gun control laws.  Like many other laws (e.g., War on Drugs), they sound very pretty when being drafted into legislation, full of lofty goals and good intentions.  But, of course, they are part of a raft of completely unenforceable laws that are passed every year.  This is where the anarchists and libertarians meet, eh, B?  If a law can't be enforced, then why write it up in the first place?  This is a colossal waste of money and resources.

Is a guy unloading his gun over his stereo OK?  Probably not.  But I don't like the idea that seems to be in play here: "Well, as long as we came all the way out here, we might as well arrest *somebody*."  In fairness, I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened between the gun wielding homeowner and the police.  Maybe they told him, "Hey, man, you can't be doing that," and were willing to let it go at that.  And maybe he got belligerent, which landed him in jail.  Maybe not.  Maybe NOPD is going for the "broken windows theory."  I have no idea.

I lived in NO from 1988-1993 and still have a place in my heart for it.  In some ways, it will always feel like home.  NO has a way of doing that.

As for guns and gun control, though, I will always recall what a friend of mine explained many years ago.  Whenever there is a gun-wielding maniac on the loose, on a killing spree, what is the ONLY way the person is ever stopped?  The arrival of more guns.  

Criminals don't obey the law, but regular citizens do.  So gun control laws only serve to disarm good people and keep the bad people as the only ones armed.  If you're interested, there is some fascinating research on this by...gah! I can't remember his name right now...big time liberal/progressive/anti-gun professor of renown who set out to write a book about the wonder of gun control laws and in the course of his research he learned that his premise was horse-xit and came around to the other way, based on the data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with B on gun control laws.  Like many other laws (e.g., War on Drugs), they sound very pretty when being drafted into legislation, full of lofty goals and good intentions.  But, of course, they are part of a raft of completely unenforceable laws that are passed every year.  This is where the anarchists and libertarians meet, eh, B?  If a law can&#8217;t be enforced, then why write it up in the first place?  This is a colossal waste of money and resources.</p>
<p>Is a guy unloading his gun over his stereo OK?  Probably not.  But I don&#8217;t like the idea that seems to be in play here: &#8220;Well, as long as we came all the way out here, we might as well arrest *somebody*.&#8221;  In fairness, I wasn&#8217;t there, so I don&#8217;t know what happened between the gun wielding homeowner and the police.  Maybe they told him, &#8220;Hey, man, you can&#8217;t be doing that,&#8221; and were willing to let it go at that.  And maybe he got belligerent, which landed him in jail.  Maybe not.  Maybe NOPD is going for the &#8220;broken windows theory.&#8221;  I have no idea.</p>
<p>I lived in NO from 1988-1993 and still have a place in my heart for it.  In some ways, it will always feel like home.  NO has a way of doing that.</p>
<p>As for guns and gun control, though, I will always recall what a friend of mine explained many years ago.  Whenever there is a gun-wielding maniac on the loose, on a killing spree, what is the ONLY way the person is ever stopped?  The arrival of more guns.  </p>
<p>Criminals don&#8217;t obey the law, but regular citizens do.  So gun control laws only serve to disarm good people and keep the bad people as the only ones armed.  If you&#8217;re interested, there is some fascinating research on this by&#8230;gah! I can&#8217;t remember his name right now&#8230;big time liberal/progressive/anti-gun professor of renown who set out to write a book about the wonder of gun control laws and in the course of his research he learned that his premise was horse-xit and came around to the other way, based on the data.</p>
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		<title>By: Editor B</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207911</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 03:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207911</guid>
		<description>I guess I missed the thrust of your query the first time, Kent. In a word, no, I do not feel safer knowing the guy up the street has a gun and is willing to use it. As others have noted, his response seems like overkill. As for gun control laws, I really don't know. I somehow doubt they'd have much effect. Of course I recognize that not all laws are created equal. I'd want to consider any specific proposal on its merits. I'd be all for stricter gun control if I felt it would actually control guns, but that's just the problem -- I can't imagine how it would.

FYI Garvey doesn't live in New Orleans now but he did once upon a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I missed the thrust of your query the first time, Kent. In a word, no, I do not feel safer knowing the guy up the street has a gun and is willing to use it. As others have noted, his response seems like overkill. As for gun control laws, I really don&#8217;t know. I somehow doubt they&#8217;d have much effect. Of course I recognize that not all laws are created equal. I&#8217;d want to consider any specific proposal on its merits. I&#8217;d be all for stricter gun control if I felt it would actually control guns, but that&#8217;s just the problem &#8212; I can&#8217;t imagine how it would.</p>
<p>FYI Garvey doesn&#8217;t live in New Orleans now but he did once upon a time.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207895</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 02:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207895</guid>
		<description>Bart.  I have enjoyed the discussion, but I feel you haven't addressed a key question, nor has anyone else.  I understand if everyone views this thread as closed, but I'll ask in the spirit of wanting to listen and learn.  If no one answers further, I've lost nothing by asking.

Do you feel safer in your neighborhood knowing that people can protect themselves with guns, or is this example of seemingly reckless behavior, 12 rounds fired over a stereo theft, a source for increasing uneasiness?  

Is firing a gun, with the potential for unintended harm, over something as minor as a car stereo theft a suitable response?  Do you think stricter gun control would lead to additional violent crime in your neighborhood, or a reduction?  And if gun control would make things safer for you, XY, and Persephone, would restricting civil liberties in this manner be worth the added security?

I don't know if Garvey lives in New Orleans.  He gave an interesting and well considered response.  But his answer seemed less personal, and more political than yours.  I expected that living in New Orleans would elicit a more personal response like yours - one founded on your present experiences, instead of philosophically justified.

Of course, I would welcome further response from Garvey and any other as well.  It's an event worthy of a little more discussion, I think.  But as you are a new father living in an inner city environment in a city with a unique culture and recent history, your answer interests me most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart.  I have enjoyed the discussion, but I feel you haven&#8217;t addressed a key question, nor has anyone else.  I understand if everyone views this thread as closed, but I&#8217;ll ask in the spirit of wanting to listen and learn.  If no one answers further, I&#8217;ve lost nothing by asking.</p>
<p>Do you feel safer in your neighborhood knowing that people can protect themselves with guns, or is this example of seemingly reckless behavior, 12 rounds fired over a stereo theft, a source for increasing uneasiness?  </p>
<p>Is firing a gun, with the potential for unintended harm, over something as minor as a car stereo theft a suitable response?  Do you think stricter gun control would lead to additional violent crime in your neighborhood, or a reduction?  And if gun control would make things safer for you, XY, and Persephone, would restricting civil liberties in this manner be worth the added security?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if Garvey lives in New Orleans.  He gave an interesting and well considered response.  But his answer seemed less personal, and more political than yours.  I expected that living in New Orleans would elicit a more personal response like yours - one founded on your present experiences, instead of philosophically justified.</p>
<p>Of course, I would welcome further response from Garvey and any other as well.  It&#8217;s an event worthy of a little more discussion, I think.  But as you are a new father living in an inner city environment in a city with a unique culture and recent history, your answer interests me most.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207550</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207550</guid>
		<description>While I do feel bad that the perps won't be caught here--my initial reaction was to feel irked by lopsided justice, yet again--isn't this what car insurance is for? Car insurance companies might not pay off in wind/flooding situations, but even the lousiest companies would pay for a stereo system here. What the perps had been good shots and shot back? You're dead over a stereo system? Sheesh. Buy a good auto alarm system if it means that much to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I do feel bad that the perps won&#8217;t be caught here&#8211;my initial reaction was to feel irked by lopsided justice, yet again&#8211;isn&#8217;t this what car insurance is for? Car insurance companies might not pay off in wind/flooding situations, but even the lousiest companies would pay for a stereo system here. What the perps had been good shots and shot back? You&#8217;re dead over a stereo system? Sheesh. Buy a good auto alarm system if it means that much to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Garvey</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207214</link>
		<dc:creator>Garvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207214</guid>
		<description>The problem with anarchists is that they never run for office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with anarchists is that they never run for office.</p>
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		<title>By: Editor B</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207158</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207158</guid>
		<description>Garvey, you've been reading me long enough to know of my anarchist tendencies. Certainly I've been reading your comments here long enough to know of your libertarian tendencies. We'll find plenty to agree on. I believe the state is a nefarious, self-serving institution. I'd be happy to see community-powered solutions to the issues you mention, rather than top-down statist solutions. While we're at it, let's get gov't out of drug policy and the prison system and the military. Oh, and civil engineering too. Just as long as we don't put some kind of über-capitalism in its place.

Of course, if we're not abolishing the state today, I'd like some universal health care please.

Funny how these posts take on a life of their own. I didn't really think I'd be getting into a wide-ranging philosophical discussion when I posted this morning. But all of a sudden I feel like I'm sitting in the dorm room kicking the bong around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garvey, you&#8217;ve been reading me long enough to know of my anarchist tendencies. Certainly I&#8217;ve been reading your comments here long enough to know of your libertarian tendencies. We&#8217;ll find plenty to agree on. I believe the state is a nefarious, self-serving institution. I&#8217;d be happy to see community-powered solutions to the issues you mention, rather than top-down statist solutions. While we&#8217;re at it, let&#8217;s get gov&#8217;t out of drug policy and the prison system and the military. Oh, and civil engineering too. Just as long as we don&#8217;t put some kind of über-capitalism in its place.</p>
<p>Of course, if we&#8217;re not abolishing the state today, I&#8217;d like some universal health care please.</p>
<p>Funny how these posts take on a life of their own. I didn&#8217;t really think I&#8217;d be getting into a wide-ranging philosophical discussion when I posted this morning. But all of a sudden I feel like I&#8217;m sitting in the dorm room kicking the bong around.</p>
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		<title>By: Garvey</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207138</link>
		<dc:creator>Garvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207138</guid>
		<description>"I also don’t believe government control is desirable or even possible."

Would you be willing to generalize this statement to other areas, such as health care, education, energy policy, etc.?  

Liberty born in cynicism is still liberty!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I also don’t believe government control is desirable or even possible.&#8221;</p>
<p>Would you be willing to generalize this statement to other areas, such as health care, education, energy policy, etc.?  </p>
<p>Liberty born in cynicism is still liberty!</p>
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		<title>By: celcus</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/06/30/shots-verified/comment-page-1/#comment-207032</link>
		<dc:creator>celcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/?p=1606#comment-207032</guid>
		<description>Bart, with a response like that, you should run for office...or take up yoga.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart, with a response like that, you should run for office&#8230;or take up yoga.</p>
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