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	<title>Comments on: Edwards Et Al</title>
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	<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/</link>
	<description>Life in the Flood Zone</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bayoustjohndavid</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162982</link>
		<dc:creator>bayoustjohndavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162982</guid>
		<description>"No one in the MSM fell for it."

Well, whoopdedooo!  The MSM loves Obama and hates Clinton -- unfortunately,  I'm afraid that the MSM doesn't love Obama as much as McCain.  The MSM tried to tell us that "fairy tale" and the drug use that Obama mentioned in his own book were somehow racist.  The Jesse Jackson line could be interpreted one or both of two ways -- an attempt to downplay the loss (do the new rules now make it racist for losing primary candidates to try to try to minimize primary losses?) or a racial ploy.  With Edwards out, I'm still voting for Obama, but I do understand the backlash against media manipulation that led a lot of N.H. voters to for Clinton.

What media manipulation?  Keith Olbermann and Eugene Robinson asking why Clinton didn't say Edwards won S.C. and didn't get the nomination, instead of Jesse Jackson.  First off, since the implementation of the primary system, the S.C. winner has only failed to win the nomination three times -- Jackson in 1984 &#38; 1988 and Edwards in 2004.  So Clinton didn't have a lot to choose from in his effort to downplay the importance of S.C.  So Olbermann and Robinson ask why he didn't name Edwards.  Why didn't Clinton take a swipe at somebody whose supporters his wife needs to win over?  Do you really think Olbermann and Robinson are that stupid?  I don't, and I don't appreciate it when intelligent people play stupid to sway viewers.

One other thing, there's a subtext to the charges about the Clintons that I find dubious at best.  On the one hand, we hear about the disciplined Clinton machine that calculates everything it says and does.  But we also hear about Bill Clinton the walking id who can't keep his pants zipped.  Two different heads, I know, but there's usually some correlation.  Anyway, we also hear that every statement is calculated when it serves one line of attack, but we hear that Bill Clinton will be a loose cannon who will say all sorts of thing as first husband when it suits another line of attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No one in the MSM fell for it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, whoopdedooo!  The MSM loves Obama and hates Clinton &#8212; unfortunately,  I&#8217;m afraid that the MSM doesn&#8217;t love Obama as much as McCain.  The MSM tried to tell us that &#8220;fairy tale&#8221; and the drug use that Obama mentioned in his own book were somehow racist.  The Jesse Jackson line could be interpreted one or both of two ways &#8212; an attempt to downplay the loss (do the new rules now make it racist for losing primary candidates to try to try to minimize primary losses?) or a racial ploy.  With Edwards out, I&#8217;m still voting for Obama, but I do understand the backlash against media manipulation that led a lot of N.H. voters to for Clinton.</p>
<p>What media manipulation?  Keith Olbermann and Eugene Robinson asking why Clinton didn&#8217;t say Edwards won S.C. and didn&#8217;t get the nomination, instead of Jesse Jackson.  First off, since the implementation of the primary system, the S.C. winner has only failed to win the nomination three times &#8212; Jackson in 1984 &amp; 1988 and Edwards in 2004.  So Clinton didn&#8217;t have a lot to choose from in his effort to downplay the importance of S.C.  So Olbermann and Robinson ask why he didn&#8217;t name Edwards.  Why didn&#8217;t Clinton take a swipe at somebody whose supporters his wife needs to win over?  Do you really think Olbermann and Robinson are that stupid?  I don&#8217;t, and I don&#8217;t appreciate it when intelligent people play stupid to sway viewers.</p>
<p>One other thing, there&#8217;s a subtext to the charges about the Clintons that I find dubious at best.  On the one hand, we hear about the disciplined Clinton machine that calculates everything it says and does.  But we also hear about Bill Clinton the walking id who can&#8217;t keep his pants zipped.  Two different heads, I know, but there&#8217;s usually some correlation.  Anyway, we also hear that every statement is calculated when it serves one line of attack, but we hear that Bill Clinton will be a loose cannon who will say all sorts of thing as first husband when it suits another line of attack.</p>
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		<title>By: dario</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162937</link>
		<dc:creator>dario</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162937</guid>
		<description>as to the bit about mccain talking through gritted teeth....
thats just his teeth!  they're always like that.  give him a ciggie, and he's the rod serling of politicians.

what really sears my steak is the fact that its another republicrat/demican runoff.  in this time where the country is begging for change, we're stuck with imperialists no matter which candidate from which side of the aisle.  i'm hoping barak's perceived imperialism is merely a symptom of his inexperience on the national stage...but i also hoped that my bloody valentine would follow up the "loveless" album.  

i think i'm going to pass out clothespins with little felt "feeties" on them this election day, telling voters that "it'll help to put this on your nose"...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as to the bit about mccain talking through gritted teeth&#8230;.<br />
thats just his teeth!  they&#8217;re always like that.  give him a ciggie, and he&#8217;s the rod serling of politicians.</p>
<p>what really sears my steak is the fact that its another republicrat/demican runoff.  in this time where the country is begging for change, we&#8217;re stuck with imperialists no matter which candidate from which side of the aisle.  i&#8217;m hoping barak&#8217;s perceived imperialism is merely a symptom of his inexperience on the national stage&#8230;but i also hoped that my bloody valentine would follow up the &#8220;loveless&#8221; album.  </p>
<p>i think i&#8217;m going to pass out clothespins with little felt &#8220;feeties&#8221; on them this election day, telling voters that &#8220;it&#8217;ll help to put this on your nose&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Garvey</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162922</link>
		<dc:creator>Garvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162922</guid>
		<description>"Jesse Jackson won SC twice" was CLEARLY an attempt to marginalize Obama as "the black candidate."  You are pretty much the only one I've heard that doesn't believe it.  No one in the MSM fell for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jesse Jackson won SC twice&#8221; was CLEARLY an attempt to marginalize Obama as &#8220;the black candidate.&#8221;  You are pretty much the only one I&#8217;ve heard that doesn&#8217;t believe it.  No one in the MSM fell for it.</p>
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		<title>By: bayoustjohndavid</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162783</link>
		<dc:creator>bayoustjohndavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162783</guid>
		<description>David's right about Bill Clinton inheriting a big mess, I even remember a lot of people making a similar argument to the 20 year one back in 1992.  But i don't know if the next president can count on a tech boom to make things easy and i do know that he'll an Iraq mess to make things even more difficult.

I'd like some specific example of the race baiting by the Clintons that some people are talking about, because most strike me as absurd.  Drug use?  Get real, if Edwards were the main contender and he had written about cocaine use... Fairy tale?  WTF?  The only one that seems hard to defend is "Jesse Jackson won S.C. twice"  I cringed when I heard it and thought it was incredibly stupid, but it could have been calculated.  However, when I heard pundits say that if he was looking for an example of somebody who won S.C. and lost the nomination he could have said Edwards. I wanted to slap them and ask, "are you really stupid, are just playing stupid?  The nomination will come down to who gets Edwards voters, and you're asking why he didn't piss off Edwards when he was trying to diminish Obama's victory.  Are you kidding me?"

I've said it elsewhere, but I'll say it again here.  If Obama gets the nomination, please be prepared to back it up every time you say racism.  In my experience,  people who admit to a certain level of prejudice and try to correct for it will stop trying when they hear what they consider overdone or unfair charges of racism.  I'm not saying subtle or hidden racism should be ignored, but you can view an election as important struggle  to win or as an opportunity to educate people.  If you try to do the latter, you might sabotage the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David&#8217;s right about Bill Clinton inheriting a big mess, I even remember a lot of people making a similar argument to the 20 year one back in 1992.  But i don&#8217;t know if the next president can count on a tech boom to make things easy and i do know that he&#8217;ll an Iraq mess to make things even more difficult.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like some specific example of the race baiting by the Clintons that some people are talking about, because most strike me as absurd.  Drug use?  Get real, if Edwards were the main contender and he had written about cocaine use&#8230; Fairy tale?  WTF?  The only one that seems hard to defend is &#8220;Jesse Jackson won S.C. twice&#8221;  I cringed when I heard it and thought it was incredibly stupid, but it could have been calculated.  However, when I heard pundits say that if he was looking for an example of somebody who won S.C. and lost the nomination he could have said Edwards. I wanted to slap them and ask, &#8220;are you really stupid, are just playing stupid?  The nomination will come down to who gets Edwards voters, and you&#8217;re asking why he didn&#8217;t piss off Edwards when he was trying to diminish Obama&#8217;s victory.  Are you kidding me?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it elsewhere, but I&#8217;ll say it again here.  If Obama gets the nomination, please be prepared to back it up every time you say racism.  In my experience,  people who admit to a certain level of prejudice and try to correct for it will stop trying when they hear what they consider overdone or unfair charges of racism.  I&#8217;m not saying subtle or hidden racism should be ignored, but you can view an election as important struggle  to win or as an opportunity to educate people.  If you try to do the latter, you might sabotage the former.</p>
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		<title>By: peptide</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162721</link>
		<dc:creator>peptide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162721</guid>
		<description>McCain was for an invasion of Iraq in 2000. Now he's joking about bombing Iran - but it's not a joke. He's got the same foreign policy view as the Neo-cons and his presidency is guaranteed war. 
Having views at odds with the majority of Americans on the war is not necessarily going to lead to his defeat - so much of the electorate votes based on 'character' and other such intangibles. Heck, I do to (Go Obama!), to an extent. And whatever the polls may say about opinion on the war, keep in mind how easily a big chunk of our populace is swayed. 70% believed Saddam was involved in 9/11 - and likely still do. McCain is treated with deep respect by the press and that will have tremendous impact, esp. against Clinton. I think Obama's got a much better chance of winning, since they'll both be competing for the independent and crossover vote - where Clinton will pull just from the Dem base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McCain was for an invasion of Iraq in 2000. Now he&#8217;s joking about bombing Iran - but it&#8217;s not a joke. He&#8217;s got the same foreign policy view as the Neo-cons and his presidency is guaranteed war.<br />
Having views at odds with the majority of Americans on the war is not necessarily going to lead to his defeat - so much of the electorate votes based on &#8216;character&#8217; and other such intangibles. Heck, I do to (Go Obama!), to an extent. And whatever the polls may say about opinion on the war, keep in mind how easily a big chunk of our populace is swayed. 70% believed Saddam was involved in 9/11 - and likely still do. McCain is treated with deep respect by the press and that will have tremendous impact, esp. against Clinton. I think Obama&#8217;s got a much better chance of winning, since they&#8217;ll both be competing for the independent and crossover vote - where Clinton will pull just from the Dem base.</p>
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		<title>By: Peris</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162482</link>
		<dc:creator>Peris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162482</guid>
		<description>McCain belongs to himself, more so than anyone in the field.  I believe he will soften his war stance once nominated, an even more if elected.  He has said a lot of things since 2004 through gritted teeth (what politician still standing hasn't?), so I'm counting on the pre-2004 man to re-emerge if he wins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McCain belongs to himself, more so than anyone in the field.  I believe he will soften his war stance once nominated, an even more if elected.  He has said a lot of things since 2004 through gritted teeth (what politician still standing hasn&#8217;t?), so I&#8217;m counting on the pre-2004 man to re-emerge if he wins.</p>
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		<title>By: lemming</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162387</link>
		<dc:creator>lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162387</guid>
		<description>I still think McCain vs. Bradley would have been the better set of choices in 2000...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think McCain vs. Bradley would have been the better set of choices in 2000&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162363</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162363</guid>
		<description>Garvey, I agree with you that the Clintons engaged in race bating, and it disgusts the hell out of me.

It doesn't matter what you call Bush's policies, conservative or otherwise.  The drug benefit benefitted only the drug companies.  No Child Left Behind accomplished nothing.  And the AIDS and malaria initiatives were underfunded.  Of course, compared to rendering the constitution meaningless and killing hundreds of thousands, those matters seem like small potatoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garvey, I agree with you that the Clintons engaged in race bating, and it disgusts the hell out of me.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter what you call Bush&#8217;s policies, conservative or otherwise.  The drug benefit benefitted only the drug companies.  No Child Left Behind accomplished nothing.  And the AIDS and malaria initiatives were underfunded.  Of course, compared to rendering the constitution meaningless and killing hundreds of thousands, those matters seem like small potatoes.</p>
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		<title>By: Garvey</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162351</link>
		<dc:creator>Garvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162351</guid>
		<description>Bush lurched us to the left in so many ways that I never understood the hostility towards him...from the left!  

Proposals such as No Child Left Behind, the AIDS and malaria initiatives, and the addition of a prescription drug benefit to Medicare...these are not "conservative."  Bush multiplied spending horribly, not even including the war.

And David: veiled racism?  Are you talking about the Clintons?  I hope so.  What they have done to Obama is despicable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush lurched us to the left in so many ways that I never understood the hostility towards him&#8230;from the left!  </p>
<p>Proposals such as No Child Left Behind, the AIDS and malaria initiatives, and the addition of a prescription drug benefit to Medicare&#8230;these are not &#8220;conservative.&#8221;  Bush multiplied spending horribly, not even including the war.</p>
<p>And David: veiled racism?  Are you talking about the Clintons?  I hope so.  What they have done to Obama is despicable.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162347</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2008/01/30/edwards-et-al/#comment-162347</guid>
		<description>Well, I think the people that think in those terms wouldn't vote for a Democrat anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I think the people that think in those terms wouldn&#8217;t vote for a Democrat anyway.</p>
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