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	<title>Comments on: Cardholder Blues</title>
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	<description>Life in the Flood Zone</description>
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		<title>By: Editor B</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-159386</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-159386</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update: I followed the advice in Carol’s comment and contacted Christopher Elliott. He contacted Orbitz and they gave me a call the following week. After getting the details, they agreed to refund the remainder of the fees. I just saw in my bank statement that the refund went thru. Since the extra fees included taxes, I guess that means this vacation ended up being tax free!</p>
<p>Thanks Carol and Chris.</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda Helverson</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156585</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda Helverson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156585</guid>
		<description>Jurisdiction is a fundamental concept of the court system.  This means that you cannot file a suit against someone, say from Alabama, in a place where they do not live or conduct business, say in Louisiana.  This is a fundamental legal principle  - it doesn&#039;t take a legal hotshot to know that.

Simply put, a court in Louisiana, small claims or not and absent special circumstances, does not have any jurisdiction over a company in any other State.  Otherwise, the result would be chaos.

We learned in law school that one should not get one&#039;s ego involved in one&#039;s legal reasoning.  You might consider this before you offer &quot;expert&quot; legal advice that is fundamentally and completely wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jurisdiction is a fundamental concept of the court system.  This means that you cannot file a suit against someone, say from Alabama, in a place where they do not live or conduct business, say in Louisiana.  This is a fundamental legal principle  &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t take a legal hotshot to know that.</p>
<p>Simply put, a court in Louisiana, small claims or not and absent special circumstances, does not have any jurisdiction over a company in any other State.  Otherwise, the result would be chaos.</p>
<p>We learned in law school that one should not get one&#8217;s ego involved in one&#8217;s legal reasoning.  You might consider this before you offer &#8220;expert&#8221; legal advice that is fundamentally and completely wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Gstohl</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156475</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Gstohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156475</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a syndicated column in the Travel section of the Times Picayune called Travel Troubleshooter that helps people with similar travel related problems. Many times the customer is given a refund or discount even when the problem was due to a mistake on their part. Contact Christopher Elliott at celliott@ngs.org.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a syndicated column in the Travel section of the Times Picayune called Travel Troubleshooter that helps people with similar travel related problems. Many times the customer is given a refund or discount even when the problem was due to a mistake on their part. Contact Christopher Elliott at <a href="mailto:celliott@ngs.org">celliott@ngs.org</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jedd</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156449</link>
		<dc:creator>Jedd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 22:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156449</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not an attorney, as you could have easily determined, so your snarky comments about my Civil Procedures course are apparently to show that you are a legal hot shot. So tell me, miss hot shot, if you have filed any Small Claims cases in New Orleans? If you have, you would know that the procedures are considerably more informal than in civil court. In my personal experience (and I&#039;ll emphasize again that my statements are based solely on my personal experience) the judges are more than willing to listen to any reasonable argument. Furthermore, B Rox could always make the statement that his transaction took place on his computer, which is clearly located in LA. As to filing the judgment in Alabama, perhaps you missed my post above where I noted that fact.

Finally, regarding your suggestion about legal fees, surely you know that &quot;The rules of civil procedure and sometimes evidence are typically altered and simplified in order to make the procedures economical: one guiding principle usually operating in these courts is that individuals ought to be able to conduct their own cases and represent themselves without recourse to a lawyer.&quot; (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_claims_court)

Regarding the &quot;Jurisdiction and Venue&quot; section, surely you&#039;re aware that there&#039;s no such section in the Orleans Parish Small Claims form? All you fill out is your information, the defendant&#039;s information, and a very short description of why you&#039;re suing them. (It may have changed since my last successful suit, but I suspect not.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not an attorney, as you could have easily determined, so your snarky comments about my Civil Procedures course are apparently to show that you are a legal hot shot. So tell me, miss hot shot, if you have filed any Small Claims cases in New Orleans? If you have, you would know that the procedures are considerably more informal than in civil court. In my personal experience (and I&#8217;ll emphasize again that my statements are based solely on my personal experience) the judges are more than willing to listen to any reasonable argument. Furthermore, B Rox could always make the statement that his transaction took place on his computer, which is clearly located in LA. As to filing the judgment in Alabama, perhaps you missed my post above where I noted that fact.</p>
<p>Finally, regarding your suggestion about legal fees, surely you know that &#8220;The rules of civil procedure and sometimes evidence are typically altered and simplified in order to make the procedures economical: one guiding principle usually operating in these courts is that individuals ought to be able to conduct their own cases and represent themselves without recourse to a lawyer.&#8221; (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_claims_court" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_claims_court</a>)</p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;Jurisdiction and Venue&#8221; section, surely you&#8217;re aware that there&#8217;s no such section in the Orleans Parish Small Claims form? All you fill out is your information, the defendant&#8217;s information, and a very short description of why you&#8217;re suing them. (It may have changed since my last successful suit, but I suspect not.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda Helverson</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156443</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda Helverson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156443</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jedd claims: &#8220;Regarding Brenda’s claim that the court will not have jurisdiction &#8211; again, this is incorrect, in my experience.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope.  Before a court can accept a case, it must have both personal jurisdiction and subject-matter jurisdiction over the defendant (and must also be the proper venue).  Unless the motel in question has the required &#8220;minimum contact&#8221; with Louisiana, the LA Court has absolutely no authority over a company in Alabama.  Even if brox sued in Federal court, the suit would have to be filed in a Federal District Court in Alabama to obtain personal jurisdiction over the motel.</p>
<p>This one of the fundamentals of the Civil Procedure course that all law students must take during their first (1L) year.  If your law professor didn&#8217;t teach you this in your Civil Procedure course, you should complain.  Both my CP course and all of my trial courses emphasized this point.  Did yours?</p>
<p>Jedd, what you are suggesting is called Abuse of Legal Process.  By following your advice, brox could have a golden opportunity to have his case summarily dismissed, to pay the motel&#8217;s legal fees (that could be rather large for defending an out-of-state lawsuit), and to pay sanctions to the court.  In addition, the judgment, if obtained, would have to be filed in Alabama to be of any use.</p>
<p>When you filed your lawsuits, what did you put in the &#8220;Jursidiction and Venue&#8221; section of the Complaint?  Surely you didn&#8217;t mislead the court, did you?</p>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156401</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156401</guid>
		<description>a while back, the Missoula Federal  Credit Union posted an alert on its home page stating the VISA cards ossued through it would not work if used in NOLA...I&#039;m not sure if that is still the case...we moved across country and left that account open but never use it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a while back, the Missoula Federal  Credit Union posted an alert on its home page stating the VISA cards ossued through it would not work if used in NOLA&#8230;I&#8217;m not sure if that is still the case&#8230;we moved across country and left that account open but never use it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jedd</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156361</link>
		<dc:creator>Jedd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156361</guid>
		<description>David - actually, filing out of state is very easy. You simply send a stamped (&quot;true&quot;) copy of the suit by certified mail, return receipt, to the registered agent for the company. (Hence my comments on finding the registered agent via the Secretary of State for the applicable state.)

Regarding Brenda&#039;s claim that the court will not have jurisdiction - again, this is incorrect, in my experience. Most companies of a certain size (bigger is better) do not like to have judgments against them, particularly default judgments, no matter where. Judgments can, in fact, be transferred to another state once they have been properly recorded.

Overall, the point of the small claims filing is to get their attention. While it&#039;s easier for a company to ignore your phone calls and letters, in my personal experience, a court filing most definitely gets their attention and brings them to the negotiating table. Most likely, they will hire a Louisiana attorney to settle the matter. Again, this is based on my filing a couple suits against out of state companies; both times there was a very satisfactory conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; actually, filing out of state is very easy. You simply send a stamped (&#8220;true&#8221;) copy of the suit by certified mail, return receipt, to the registered agent for the company. (Hence my comments on finding the registered agent via the Secretary of State for the applicable state.)</p>
<p>Regarding Brenda&#8217;s claim that the court will not have jurisdiction &#8211; again, this is incorrect, in my experience. Most companies of a certain size (bigger is better) do not like to have judgments against them, particularly default judgments, no matter where. Judgments can, in fact, be transferred to another state once they have been properly recorded.</p>
<p>Overall, the point of the small claims filing is to get their attention. While it&#8217;s easier for a company to ignore your phone calls and letters, in my personal experience, a court filing most definitely gets their attention and brings them to the negotiating table. Most likely, they will hire a Louisiana attorney to settle the matter. Again, this is based on my filing a couple suits against out of state companies; both times there was a very satisfactory conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156348</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156348</guid>
		<description>I agree that the $147 was ridiculous.  I bet you could fight it and win, but it would take lots of time and persistance - maybe more than it&#039;s worth, depending on how you feel about it.

But here&#039;s something I heard recently - that hotels treat their &quot;online&quot; guests (i.e those who book on the internet or through a service) like crap.  They treat the phone-in booking guests the best.  I heard that when there&#039;s a room shortage, they&#039;ll boot the online guests first (it has to do with getting lower total remuneration for the online stays, due to fees paid to the online service).  So I&#039;ve been making it my practice to search rates online, and then to call and actually book a hotel by phone.  

That&#039;s what I did with the Royal Sonesta in N.O.  - can&#039;t wait for that trip coming up!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the $147 was ridiculous.  I bet you could fight it and win, but it would take lots of time and persistance &#8211; maybe more than it&#8217;s worth, depending on how you feel about it.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s something I heard recently &#8211; that hotels treat their &#8220;online&#8221; guests (i.e those who book on the internet or through a service) like crap.  They treat the phone-in booking guests the best.  I heard that when there&#8217;s a room shortage, they&#8217;ll boot the online guests first (it has to do with getting lower total remuneration for the online stays, due to fees paid to the online service).  So I&#8217;ve been making it my practice to search rates online, and then to call and actually book a hotel by phone.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I did with the Royal Sonesta in N.O.  &#8211; can&#8217;t wait for that trip coming up!!</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda Helverson</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156338</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda Helverson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 02:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156338</guid>
		<description>It is pointless to file a lawsuit in Louisiana if the hotel in in Alabama.  Unless the same owner (not necessarily the same chain) also operates in Louisiana, the LA Court won&#039;t have jurisdiction and you might open yourself to a counterclaim that your lawsuit is frivolous.

Unless you want to sue in Alabama (and I doubt that you want to spend the time), I suggest filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection division of the Alabama Attorney General&#039;s office.  A letter from the AG asking for their side of the story usually gets their attention.

In addition to Schliefnet&#039;s suggestion to contact the BBB, you might copy your AG complaint to their local Chamber of Commerce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is pointless to file a lawsuit in Louisiana if the hotel in in Alabama.  Unless the same owner (not necessarily the same chain) also operates in Louisiana, the LA Court won&#8217;t have jurisdiction and you might open yourself to a counterclaim that your lawsuit is frivolous.</p>
<p>Unless you want to sue in Alabama (and I doubt that you want to spend the time), I suggest filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection division of the Alabama Attorney General&#8217;s office.  A letter from the AG asking for their side of the story usually gets their attention.</p>
<p>In addition to Schliefnet&#8217;s suggestion to contact the BBB, you might copy your AG complaint to their local Chamber of Commerce.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-156320</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://b.rox.com/2007/12/14/cardholder-blues/#comment-156320</guid>
		<description>I realized after I wrote that that leaving the balance is not good.

I&#039;ve used Small Claims.  The filing fee is $75.  The company will have to be served.  If they&#039;re in Orleans parish, that costs $20 extra dollars.  Getting them served outside Orleans parish will be even more complicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realized after I wrote that that leaving the balance is not good.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve used Small Claims.  The filing fee is $75.  The company will have to be served.  If they&#8217;re in Orleans parish, that costs $20 extra dollars.  Getting them served outside Orleans parish will be even more complicated.</p>
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